Clans and Non-Clan discussion

I figured this one would be an interesting one to start on here.
This topic is about your basic opinions about the Clans and so on.

Clan vs non-Clan
Kekei Genkai vs Hiden
Clan vs Clan (which Clan's are stronger, if so and why do you believe that to be so?)
Clan and Village
Bloodline Limit and Secret Hunting

Is it better to be a member of a Clan or to not be bound by such an institution.
The benefits of being part of a Clan in Combat terms is mostly present at the start of the game as one has a base of functional and tested techniques layed out for them tailored to the special abilities that their Clan provides them with. As well as those special abilities themselves that separate them from others.
The roleplay advantage of being in a Clan is that you have a large number of NPC's to support you and that are able and willing to teach you Clan techniques as well as other things.
The disadvantage is that you are less free in your choices of character build-up in many ways and usually to keep that head-start you'd have to keep pushing it on the benefits of your clan in most cases.
The roleplay disadvantage is that your clan has it's policies, it's agenda and so on and you'd have to fit in or figure out a way around fitting in, it also brings with it the Clan quarrels if present.

The benefits of being a Non-Clan character are that you are more free in the set-up of your character and his/her development, in fact very free if I may say so myself.
You are not bound by Clan politics nor bothered by their quarrels directly, but neither do you have their support (unless you make a Merit and so on but that's part of the freedom in character build-up)
You do not have their special abilities, nor anyone to train you directly in the ones you design.
But you can more freely form an individual set of skills and techniques unique to your character.
Obtain some kind of legendary object or artifact or go bloodline and secret hunting. You limits are very few as a non-Clan character.

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Kekei Genkai vs Hiden....which is better a bloodline Limit or a secret set of techniques with in some cases bodily modifications or rituals having been performed on the Clan individual...or are they pretty much on the same level?

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Which Clan do you guys think is the strongest and why? Care to give your top 5 or top 10 list?
Which Clan's hold an advantage over a specific other one and why and how to they match-up?

I would say the Clans are pretty balanced all-around with their options.
But still some can be considered more 'powerful' or 'advantageous' than others, but this also largely depends on the situation and positioning.

For example 1 Uchiha vs 1 Aburame of the same level without prior preparation, the Aburame would probably win unless the Uchiha has his Sharingan awakened.
However if it is 3 Uchiha vs 3 Aburame even with the Sharingan i would give my vote to the Aburame here as their Clan is much more sufficient in applying team tactics.
Also 1 vs 1 or 3 vs 3, the Aburame would win if he was abushing, where in the case of the Uchiha this would not be a certainty, sharingan or not.

All this considering that each of them is on the same level of power and ability.

Then there are political and long-term/roleplay advantages such as the Uzumaki Mask shrine and the Nara forest.

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Clan and Village.

We currently have about 12 Clans in Konoha.
We have only 3 or so in Suna I believe...or 4.
Sabaku
Scortch element Clan
Chikamatsu
and that's pretty much it be it not for the added Sensu Clan which would be the wind element users with their huge fans which I guess would be more like the 7 mist Swordsmen idea for Kiri.

Kiri...

Yuki Clan
Kaguya Clan
Hoozuki Clan
The Mizukage's Clan with the boil element
and well the 7 mist swordsmen unit which isn't 'really' a clan.

Iwa...

Kamizuru Clan with their wasps
Torimenshi Clan which have the connection to natures chakra like Yugo and the cursed seal bearers.
The Explosive element Clan like Gari and in a way Deidara , but he was a special case.
The Lava Element Clan with the possibility to unlock dust...
and I am pretty much done after that for Iwa.

Kumo...

Kumogakure is a curious case as I am very confused about their Clan buildup and such.

Storm Element Clan
Tag-Team-Lightning Based Clan
Spider Clan , like Kidomaru
aaaaand....uhm uhm uhm...ideas?

Also have you seen any genetic abilities like for example Sakon and Ukon's abilities to merge bodies with anyone and such that you think would be good to be made into a Clan albeit small, and in what hidden Village should it be placed?

Cause seriously...12 Clan's for Konoha and only like 4 for the other villages is a bit...uhm...I dunno how to call it but I don't like it.

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And Last but not least and a bit off-topic....for the ANBU-Black Ops Black Ops unit names....I'd like to hear your ideas if any...

we already have ANBU ROOT for Konoha
ANBU DEEP for Kiri
ANBU HEAT for Suna
ANBU ???? for Iwa? I was thinking of SOIL
ANBU ???? for Kumo? I am completely clueless here HALP! XD

Which Clan do you guys think is the strongest and why? Care to give your top 5 or top 10 list?

1. Torimenshi
2. Hyuuga
3. Kaguya
4. Sabaku
5. Uchiha
6. Yamanaka
7. Aburame
8. Yuki
9. Inuzuka
10. Crystal-style user (Guren from the fillers)

I'd love to see a clan made that uses the Crystal style. I'd love to play that.

I'll always be a fan of Kekei genaki, the thought of being something "More then human" is appealing. Though heavily modifying clans like the Aburame have the same effect.

Right off the top of my head, a tentative and shaky list of top ten clans are:
1 Senju (when they where around)
2 Uchiha (both one and two come very close)
3 kaguya (for the kekkei genkai, not so much the ideology)
4 Aburame
5 Sebaku
6 Yamanaka
7 Kidomaru's spider clan if and when it comes to exist
8 Yuki Clan
9 Uzumaki?
10 Uhh.... Nara maybe?
There are probably others but that's all I can think of right now.


I think weather a bloodline or hiden clan is better then the other definitely depends on just what the blood line and hiden are, and obviously who the ninja is. but if I HAD to make a choice, its probably kekei genkai, What they do is something a human being is physically incapable of, which is a little more grand then something you've simply had special training for.


They all look like good ideas, and I would DEFINITELY suggest making Sakon and Ukon's ability into a clan, its a kekkei genkai anyway, so they'd have to have a clan. I've always thought of them as being from the Rice country, and then Oto once it was founded. But if that's not an option.... Iwa maybe?



I'd just like to point out I don't think you could "Unlock" dust release(at least not later in life), since It was explained by Shikamaru in episode 268 that an advanced chakra nature can only form when a person is born with the 2 chakra affinities, not when they train in them later in life. And a Kekkei Tota is exactly the same, but simply involving 3 as opposed to 2. This would also answer why we've seen the same advanced natures come from different villages, like Magnet release. Unlocking it is simply a rather random process, although having direct blood relations with someone who has it would obviously dramatically increase your chances, if not ensure it.


HEAT, DEEP and SOIL all sound awesome. not sure about HALP though...

Also, Here's some clan suggestions:

1
A clan with a psycic Kekkei genkai that works by their brains having developed thicker chukra networks, meaning that when they activate it like the Byakugan they and can read minds and stuff, at higher levels they can use telekinesis and mind control. Perhaps they could be rivals of the Yamanaka like how the Aburame are rivals with the Kamizuru Clan.

2
A Kiri clan that's mouths seal shut in most situations, but when around a large sauce of chakra their mouths open up to reveal a massive maw of jagged teeth that can not only tear through flesh, and maybe spawn tentacles, but they can absorb chakra and feed on it for sustenance. This could either be a hiden clan that uses a modification ritual, or a kekkei genkai. Looks kinda like this

3
More Doujutsu using clans.

4
A clan that specialises in using DNA similar to Orochimaru's "Powers of the White Snake". clearly an otogakure clan (Don't hate me please...)

5
A clan with powers similar to the Rinnigan's Asura Path. giving them what could be called a "Robotics Release" chakra, to transform their bodies like the Asura Path does.

6 (this is actually one a friend of mine came up with... its kinda cool)
A clan that can not build their own chakra properly, but instead absorb chakra from the moon, this means the more full the moon is, and the more direct their contact with it's light, the more powerful they are. but without it are far weaker then the average shinobi. They'd probably have a Doujutsu to see in the dark as well.

7
A clan of Jashin worshipers.

8
A clan that uses Earth Grudge Fear. Although that apparently comes from Takigakure.

ANBU VAPOR?

Mukade, my character is Yamanaka, but is born with wind and water elemental affinity. Does this mean that she can develop ice style as well then?

Wait...a clan that can grow testicles? XD

Yorukasa, By how Shikamaru described it there is a slim possibility that she could, yes. but it would have been more likely if a parent already had it.

but of cause that's ultimately up to the admins.

EDIT: BAH! I meant to write "Tentacles" ... STUPID SPELL CHECKER!

Haha, I'd love to be able to do that, even though it's not something Yorukasa would use often. Maybe as a surprise attack? Trump card?

Hehe, a Yamanaka using ice release... that'd be pretty awesome! XD

Surprise!!

Quote :

Yorukasa, By how Shikamaru described it there is a slim possibility that she could, yes. but it would have been more likely if a parent already had it.

Huh whait what? I don't remember this conversation? only way I see this happening is when Yorukasa's parents are from the Yuki clan which involves a crossbreed of 2 clans.

Green Admin wrote:

Huh whait what? I don't remember this conversation? only way I see this happening is when Yorukasa's parents are from the Yuki clan which involves a crossbreed of 2 clans.

Her question was referring to the paragraph I wrote:

Mukade wrote:

I'd just like to point out I don't think you could "Unlock" dust release(at least not later in life), since It was explained by Shikamaru in episode 268 that an advanced chakra nature can only form when a person is born with the 2 chakra affinities, not when they train in them later in life. And a Kekkei Tota is exactly the same, but simply involving 3 as opposed to 2. This would also answer why we've seen the same advanced natures come from different villages, like Magnet release. Unlocking it is simply a rather random process, although having direct blood relations with someone who has it would obviously dramatically increase your chances, if not ensure it.

If you feel sceptical then just go watch episode 268 "Battleground!". Its in the final third of the episode I think, where Shikamaru explains how it works.

kekei tota is an unlock/power up of a kekei genkai which Yorukasa doesn't have

I Have no idea why you said that for two reasons:
1: We're not talking about Kekkei tota.
2: Kekkei tota are not a power up of a kekkei genkai! what they are is explained very clearly by shikamaru, they are simply a more powerful, but rarer version of kekkei genkai. A kekkei genkai would never naturally become a kekkei tota.

Watch the episode if you doubt it.

Suggestions for Kumo:

ANBU SKY
ANBU SLASH
ANBU PEAL

Hina suggests ANBU FLASH with this theme song :p


I actually like ANBU SOIL for Iwa.

Chikamatsu no Mukade wrote:

2
A Kiri clan that's mouths seal shut in most situations, but when around a large sauce of chakra their mouths open up to reveal a massive maw of jagged teeth that can not only tear through flesh, and maybe spawn tentacles, but they can absorb chakra and feed on it for sustenance. This could either be a hiden clan that uses a modification ritual, or a kekkei genkai. Looks kinda like this

I'm sorry, but this sounds like it came right out of a really bad sucky horror movie. I'm not in favor of this becoming a clan. It would rape Narutoverse imo.

Chikamatsu no Mukade wrote:

7
A clan of Jashin worshipers.

I like this idea. Maybe that's because Jashinism was never really explained in the manga. It just was. And Hidan was awesome. Funny, too.

Admin wrote:

Kumogakure is a curious case as I am very confused about their Clan buildup and such.

I'm guessing Kumo would have a lot of shinobi that are very adept at lightning techniques. Perhaps you could make something out of this.

About kekai genkai or hiden... I don't know, I don't like making a choice between them because I'd need examples. Is Hidan someone who performed a hiden?

Bodily modifactions is such a broad term. I mean, you could modify your own body, changing your DNA to make sure your cells will duplicate infinitely but controlled, so you'll achieve something like immortality.

In that sense I would say hiden are definitely superior to kekai genkai, because you could do anything with hiden.

Also, it would make hiden super OP. So there lurks a danger.

Chikamatsu no Mukade wrote:

I Have no idea why you said that for two reasons:
1: We're not talking about Kekkei tota.
2: Kekkei tota are not a power up of a kekkei genkai! what they are is explained very clearly by shikamaru, they are simply a more powerful, but rarer version of kekkei genkai. A kekkei genkai would never naturally become a kekkei tota.

Watch the episode if you doubt it.

1. We are since you brought it up.

2. People are born with kekkei genkai, yet the people we see using kekkei tota LEARNED them in addition to kekkei on their kekkei genkei which they already had. Seeing as Onoki learned the dust release from Mu while already born with the kekei genkai of lava release. Made even more logical if we look at the metal control exibited by the 3rd Kazekage and Gaara who learned to manipulate metal and gold respectively in addition to their kekkei genkai. Finally whether it becomes so in this game system is a decision that is decided by Admin and future developments in the lore of naruto in which neither you have any say in the matter

3. Haku's Ice ability has since it's introduction been labeled as a kekkei genkai.

Some clan suggestions:

What about a hiphop-based clan(Bee is the main inspiration)? Some possibilities: a rhythm-based fighting style(maybe with a focus on buff like DnD's Bard so basically the dude rap as the battle wages on and the buff amplifies as he gets more and more into the music and battle), sound-amplified ninjutsus, sound-illusion genjutsu, beatbox techniques(soundwave jutsus).

Another idea I have is a clan that can control involuntary actions of his body to an extent so he could control his heartbeat rate, pump adrenaline whenever he wanted to, disable pain signal(so he can't feel any pain) and do all sort of stuff like that. He can probably fake death if he wanted to. But of course, interfere with involuntary actions have severe consequences to their body. Few problems with this idea is that I am not sure if there's enough involuntary actions that would help a shinobi and this clan probably needs a decent medical knowledge to the human's body to create.

One idea coming from a martial fantasy background is a poison-based clan(this is also one of my character concepts actually). 五毒(Wu Du, Five Deadly Venoms, might as well call it "Voodoo") is a common element in such genre, consists of five poisonous creatures: snakes, centipedes, scorpions, geckos and toads. My idea is that a clan(Kiri seems most appropriate) that uses their body as "container" of poison, kind of like Aburame and kikkai, and can unleash poisons through multiple ways. They can coat it on weapon, spread them into the air through their body glangs or just straightly spit them out from their mouth. Powerful user can even coat their skin with it so anyone that touches him will be poisoned. My current thinking is that each of the five poisons have their own status effect and the ultimate S rank jutsu of the clan is they can combine all five poisons in their body into one ultimate poison that has all status effect(and maybe some extra effects) all at once. Many poison users in martial fantasy stories utilize "hidden weapon", which is pretty much standard shinobi weapon like senbon being a prime example so it fits well with the setting here.

As for the ANBU Root thing, no offense but why every village has that? I always thought ANBU itself is already a Black Ops and having a Black Ops inside a Black Ops is just weird to me. I always view ROOT as a special unit created by Danzo and is an unique creation of its own. Thus, I really don't see why every village gets the idea of creating such an unit. I also don't really see the benefit of putting one on every village as it just make the idea generic and less cool(and to me, uninteresting). It's probably more interesting if every village has their own "design" of backstage controllers(Maybe some of them don't even have one) instead of having the same "carbon copy" ANBU sub-group on all of them. This would make every village much more different from each other, which to me is a good thing, as every village should be distinctive from each other on every layer if possible.

Still, for the naming issue:

ANBU AERO(coolest to me)
ANBU GALE
ANBU GUST

Some other, likely lamer names:

ANBU BLUR(too fast)
ANBU DUST
ANBU FURY(fast and furious)
ANBU KEEN
ANBU HAZE
ANBU RUSH
ANBU HAIL
ANBU BLOW

Sakurai Akira wrote:

I like this idea. Maybe that's because Jashinism was never really explained in the manga. It just was. And Hidan was awesome. Funny, too.

I agree on the rise of religions! I remember the monk uses some sort of buddhist palm technique against Hidan too so I think it would be cool to see some divine-based jutsus although it might not click well with the idea of ninja-based theme although Jashinism is truly well-implemented.

As for the Kekkei Genkai vs Hiden question, it's probably who can use their power best. After all, those things just grant them some sort of special abilities, it's the user that make the difference. To me, it's like comparing two martial art styles and ultimately, the better practitioner wins.

Nara Shitkataro wrote:

2. People are born with kekkei genkai, yet the people we see using kekkei tota LEARNED them in addition to kekkei on their kekkei genkei which they already had. Seeing as Onoki learned the dust release from Mu while already born with the kekei genkai of lava release. Made even more logical if we look at the metal control exibited by the 3rd Kazekage and Gaara who learned to manipulate metal and gold respectively in addition to their kekkei genkai. Finally whether it becomes so in this game system is a decision that is decided by Admin and future developments in the lore of naruto in which neither you have any say in the matter

You are correct when you say that it is up to the Admins, and I fully recognise and respect that.
But where the heck are you getting your ideas from? if you're going to make massive claims that contradict my claim then you need to provide some evidence. not even Wiki supports your claims.

Quote :

People are born with kekkei genkai, yet the people we see using kekkei tota LEARNED them in addition to kekkei on their kekkei genkei which they already had. Seeing as Onoki learned the dust release from Mu while already born with the kekei genkai of lava release.

Any advanced nature release requires training, that's the whole point of nature releases. Of cause someone who also possessed dust release needed to train Onoki. There has never been any suggestion that Onoki possesses Lava Release.

Quote :

Made even more logical if we look at the metal control exibited by the 3rd Kazekage and Gaara who learned to manipulate metal and gold respectively in addition to their kekkei genkai.

What does this have to do with anything? I know the metal manipulation was magnet release. and I've never seen Gaara able to manipulate metal or gold. seriously. give a link or name on where we can find this. I don't even know what you where trying to accomplish with this part



PLEASE! if you want to debate the nature of Kekkei tota then give SOME evidence to back up your claim, I've givin my claim, and my evidence can be found in episode 268 "Battleground!"

If you think I have somehow misinterpreted the scene or something then let me know. Other wise Shikamaru's explanation seems very straight forward and understandable, and is way off what you're claiming.


(Sorry to be rude if I am, I'm not good at dealing with people some times, and it annoys me when people try to make a claim without any evidence. I tend to think of things in a scientific manner.)

Tenshu:

A clan with the hip hop feel is what we are aiming for A and B's tagteam, lightning based clan

That sounds kinda like how Keito made his char on the previous site, I would love to move that experiment forward

As for the poison clan, cool, maybe an explanation for Yorukasa's abilities? DUM DUM DUUUUUM

also like your view on clan vs clan, stats will most likely decide the winner in battles, with an added rock-paper-scissor effect though.

Mukabe:

please verify your arguments
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/557/16
Seeing as Both Gaara and his dad had this ability and his granddad could control iron on the same basis it seems that besides sand a highly advanced version of this ability allows the ability to control metals, since both iron and gold can be influenced by magnetism adding another element might make it plausible

On the note on Onoki, though that he is never seen using lava himself if we take the fact that kekkei genkai are something that are passed down genetically and that the mix of 2 elements is indeed a kekkei genkai like so often is the case (Yuki clan, Sabaku clan, Boil release, scorch, blast) and then the Lava Release shown being used by Onoki's granddaughter suggests that Onoki has the ability but for some reason hasn't used it. Maybe because since Dust is a kekkei tota and thus a power up from this kekkei genkai it seems to be a much more usefull ability

Green Admin wrote:

A clan with the hip hop feel is what we are aiming for A and B's tagteam, lightning based clan

Ah I see, didn't think of that as I always thought Ay has no interest in hip hop. I actually thought it would be a wrestling-tagteam awesomeness + sword fighting style clan. With lightning enhancer of course.

Green Admin wrote:

As for the poison clan, cool, maybe an explanation for Yorukasa's abilities? DUM DUM DUUUUUM

I thought Yorukasa just drank poison again and again until she got that ability? The initial background for my poison clan is basically some sort of genetic thing that involves a clan of people that lives in poisonous swamp area somewhere in whatever country that live in(again, water country seems most appropriate) and thus their body has evolved into that of a poisonous creature. They are probably friends of those poisonous creatures so I am guessing they could get Animal Ken bonus when talking to such creature if this clan ever get made(if Kiri eventually open I might be able to create this character, if given the chance).

Of course, background can be flexible. Another version that is not genetic but rather a "secret art"(Nara, Akimichi type of secret family techniques) involves a man that got bitten by snake yet survived due to some insane resistance inside his body, thus he eventually developed the techniques of using self as a poison container. Then perhaps through ritual or whatever that the number of members grow and eventually turning this into a clan.

Of course, Yorukasa has huge advantage over such clan because she is completely(I assume) immune to poison so not much those clan members can do to her. They might as well just chill and talk about poison skill and application when they met.

immune to damage and resistant to other types

Tenshu Ryochoku wrote:

Of course, background can be flexible. Another version that is not genetic but rather a "secret art"(Nara, Akimichi type of secret family techniques) involves a man that got bitten by snake yet survived due to some insane resistance inside his body, thus he eventually developed the techniques of using self as a poison container. Then perhaps through ritual or whatever that the number of members grow and eventually turning this into a clan.

This sounds awesome! I'd love to see it become a clan!

Green Admin wrote:

please verify your arguments
http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/557/16
Seeing as Both Gaara and his dad had this ability and his granddad could control iron on the same basis it seems that besides sand a highly advanced version of this ability allows the ability to control metals, since both iron and gold can be influenced by magnetism adding another element might make it plausible

On the note on Onoki, though that he is never seen using lava himself if we take the fact that kekkei genkai are something that are passed down genetically and that the mix of 2 elements is indeed a kekkei genkai like so often is the case (Yuki clan, Sabaku clan, Boil release, scorch, blast) and then the Lava Release shown being used by Onoki's granddaughter suggests that Onoki has the ability but for some reason hasn't used it. Maybe because since Dust is a kekkei tota and thus a power up from this kekkei genkai it seems to be a much more usefull ability

Thank you very much. this is the format that an intelligent argumant should be made with.
However.... I'm still not convinced. I DID re watch the episode and realised my interpretation wasn't certain, merely likely.
That link doesn't seem to suggest that Garra uses magnet release, only that he used the golden sand amongst his own sand, however, since I'm not familiar with that battle I'm not going to try and make any claim one way or the other.
In regards to Onoki; it is very possible (in facti its most likely) that the two natures that make up lava (Fire and earth) did play a role in Onoki developing Dust. However, there is no suggestion at all that he has ever had lava release (that I am aware of), or that there is any connection between lava and dust besides both sharing two elements. What is most likely is Onoki (Like Mu) inherited Fire and Earth like most of his family does, but also though mutation, gained the addition of Wind, which caused him to manifest Dust instead of Lava.
The idea that members outside of a clan being able to develop the same advanced chakra nature is also supported by seeing natures such as Magnetism and Lava coming from entirely different villages simultaneously. I.E. The mizukage who is from Kirigakure, Kurotsuchi who is from Iwagakure and Dodai who is from Kumogakure all possess Lava Release. If you have some kind of alternative explanation for this please let me know.
also, there's the problem with Hashirama, if Advanced natures can ONLY be inherited, then how did he gain Wood Style? I already have my own idea on how this worked though.



On the subject of Ukon and Sarkon's hyperthetical clan again. I'd like to suggest the possibility that their clan has the propensity to bare twins in pregnancies, and those twins are taught and encouraged to work together in tag team like how Ukon and Sarkon do. By the time genin hood comes around they could be considered the same ninja almost, in how the Inuzuka members are with their canines. This would show not only a kekkei genkai clan, but also one with deep tradition, which an interesting back story could easily be made. probably something to do with a pair of founder's who where conjoined twins, or something.
So a player who uses a shinobi from this village would in fact be playing two characters, who become the one ninja.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Lava_Release
Specificly stated as being a kekkei genkai. also you forgot Roshi, the jinchuuriki from Iwa making the majority of the users come from Iwa.  Since it's obvious that Mei stole at least 1 kekkei genkai since she has at least 2 her possession is probably a result of bloodline hunting backed up by the fact that her right hand man has THE FRIKKEN BYAKUGAN. Why dodai has it? Bloodline hunting or related to Iwa I don't know. His usage for some reason revolves around rubber which doesn't really strike me as lava since rubber is extracted from trees not heated rock.

on the fact of Hashirama not that the only other person using his abilities were people inplanted with Hashi's DNA. Why didn't his ability pass down? Kishi has not explained, but one exception does not rule out the majority which consists of 6-7 other clans

Now that I think of it, clan vs clan shouldn't be about battle ability only. Some clan might be good at non-battle stuff(infiltration for example) but not-so-good in battle so I guess every clan has their own merit. Skill monkey can be very useful in missions as well and offer another style of play.

Green Admin wrote:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Lava_Release
Specificly stated as being a kekkei genkai. also you forgot Roshi, the jinchuuriki from Iwa making the majority of the users come from Iwa.  Since it's obvious that Mei stole at least 1 kekkei genkai since she has at least 2 her possession is probably a result of bloodline hunting backed up by the fact that her right hand man has THE FRIKKEN BYAKUGAN. Why dodai has it? Bloodline hunting or related to Iwa I don't know. His usage for some reason revolves around rubber which doesn't really strike me as lava since rubber is extracted from trees not heated rock.

on the fact of Hashirama not that the only other person using his abilities were people inplanted with Hashi's DNA. Why didn't his ability pass down? Kishi has not explained, but one exception does not rule out the majority which consists of 6-7 other clans

Thank you for posting a link, but you need to realise that Wiki Links are useless. They are made and edited by fans. and SO many times I've read the entries there and they simply do not match up with the manga/anime. The wiki, and other fan organised sources of data are simply unreliable. The Databooks are also unreliable, but that's mostly because they're out of date. If you want to prove a point then post a link to the manga page, or episode with instructions on when it happens.

And yes I know Lava Release is a Kekkei genkai, Its stated all nature releases are kekkei genkai (I think). But I would like to point out a couple of flaws. Firstly, Roshi Doesn't have the kekkei genkai for lava release, pointing him out only reminded me of him and proved my point further. He uses Lava Release only because he's able to draw it from his 4 tails Son Goku, who uses lava. This at the very least pruves that there's at least ONE way to gain an advanced chakra nature without kekkei genkai.

Latest chapters spoilers:

Also, while I will admin that Mai's body guard Ao possessing the Byakugan does give the possibility that she also stole one as well, It far from cements it, and is not proof on its own. I've never noticed any suggestion that she gained her multiple gekkei genkai through any means other then naturally. if you disagree then link us to a manga page that at least eludes to the possibility that she stole it.

And you're missing my point with Hoshirama. What I'm saying is his advanced nature came out of no where, He was born with it when none of his ancestors (that we or they know about) possessed it. This shows that he gained it through spontaneously combining the two natures in his genes. it is possible that only Senju can do this, but if not, then its possible that it could happen to others.

and its simple evolution anyway, you constantly have people who are born with multiple chakra natures (though they're much less common then just one) and its simple logic that genetic mutations would come around that let people combine them, and there are only so many combinations that can happen. And this does NOT negate it from being a kekkei genkai, because clearly the genes that allow for this combination are passed down. all I'm saying is that more then one person would develop them in the world. Also, there's Ice Release. We saw that being used by not just the Yuki clan, But also Shinobi from the Land of Snow, as well as the numerous examples of Lava Release. I only adopted this explanation recently (as before now I'd assumed only Senju could do this) but it seems like the simplest way to explain it all.

Wow, in depth talk here.

My two cents are that I think Kishimoto never paid much mind to genetics. Honestly, every time someone has something new or special it feels to me he's making a reason up on the spot. Also, genetics don't support rainbow colored hair and eyes, or eyes without pupils, blue skin, humans with gills, lol. And what about souls transferred to puppet bodies? There is no reason, you can't explain, it's so... I can't even..
Still, apparently it happens in Narutoverse.

I strongly feel Kishimoto just does whatever the heck he feels like doing.

Logic, genetics, reason?

Whatever, it can be arranged, he'll find a way. And seeing that he's the god of Narutoverse, everyone will just have to swallow whatever shit he comes up with.  

That's how I look at it. Trying to explain the crazy Kishi comes up with is a neverending job better known as Impossiblé. That's French spelled wrong.

Just accept it makes no sense.

And that is the solemn truth.